Garand Feed With Round in the Chamber
I am familiar with M1's but have not handled or fired one in many years. I recently bought one and all seems to be well except for feeding the first round out of the clip. I know you are supposed to have to give the bolt a slap to get it to feed that first round; I am not expecting it to automatically close and feed as that seems to be the case most of the times on all of the results that came up with my Google search. But I have to hit the bolt 3-4 times hard to get it to feed the first round. After that, all 7 rounds seem to feed just fine by firing the rifle. After some searching I have several ideas to try out but I am away right now and not able to try them out but of course my mind is constantly trying to solve the problem. The one thing I have tried is to Grease the rifle - Did that but made no difference.
Things I have yet to try:
1. Different clips - The clips that came with it are parked and from what I have read aftermarket clips with too heavy a park can make it difficult to feed the first round. I have ordered some new clips and will try to polish the ones I have.
2. Replace oprod spring. I have a new SS GI spec spring ordered from Garandgear.com
3. Check the stock - I read another guy's account that said his stock was out of spec or swelled up below the magazine and did not allow enough clearance for the clip to go down far enough. I will check that when I get home. I think I should be able to remove the rifle from the stock and see if it will feed easier with the stock removed.
I know I am being premature by asking for advice before I have tried all of these things but is there something else I should be looking at or thinking of? Has anyone else run into this before?
- #1
Is it an original GI receiver ? Not a Century , or a reweld ?
Are you using Greek ammo and clips ?
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- #2
It is an original H&R GI receiver; I do not own any Century products. Using S&B M2 ball ammo. Not sure of the origin of the clips.
- #3
On my M1s, i MAY have to slap the bolt. But most if not all the times, not.
Are you easing the op rod forward instead of letting it go home under the spring power?
here are some hints/tricks to try. Some of it maybe ??? since i forgot alot about the M1.
Enbloc - the 1st round on top should be in the right position as in if you were going to load the rifle.
field strip and remove op rod spring from upper. Put the upper back together minus op rod spring and lower. If you tilt the upper with barrel tilted up then down, the op rod/bolt should slide freely into battery. This may not show any issue. But its what i was shown when i had one customized.
You dont say if you had any issues with non S&B ammo? But i would look at this first. If you have any calipers/mike i would do some measurements and see how they compare to book.
- #4
You are supposed to depress the bloc and move your thumb before the bolt smashes it. There should be no pushing or smacking the bolt.
- #5
On my M1s, i MAY have to slap the bolt. But most if not all the times, not.
Are you easing the op rod forward instead of letting it go home under the spring power?
here are some hints/tricks to try. Some of it maybe ??? since i forgot alot about the M1.
Enbloc - the 1st round on top should be in the right position as in if you were going to load the rifle.
field strip and remove op rod spring from upper. Put the upper back together minus op rod spring and lower. If you tilt the upper with barrel tilted up then down, the op rod/bolt should slide freely into battery. This may not show any issue. But its what i was shown when i had one customized.
You dont say if you had any issues with non S&B ammo? But i would look at this first. If you have any calipers/mike i would do some measurements and see how they compare to book.
I am not easing the oprod forward. I insert the clip then if it disengages I just smack it. If it does not disengage I pull it all the way to the rear and let it fly. Either way I end up hitting it hard 3-4 times.
I have not tried any ammunition other than S&B.
I did perform the tilt test before I bought the rifle. It easily passed.
I do make sure the first round is on the right side but I have read that does not matter.
- #6
I believe this has been debunked. The only way to get Garand thumb is by closing the bolt on an empty magazine. When there are rounds in the clip there is no way to get your thumb in front of the bolt face.
Some Garands close upon insertion of a loaded clip but my understanding is that is due to worn parts and is not how it is intended to operate. Mine does not close automatically on a loaded clip.
- #7
Bullcrap, 'Nog.
Two items cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
People get a dinged digit attempting to close the bolt on an empty mag well, or less than full clip.
https://youtu.be/Jext1mIiiUk?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp
https://youtu.be/3QNphZxtewI?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3QNphZxtewI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jext1mIiiUk?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
- #8
Just pull the op rod back a bit to release the hooks, and let-er fly.
- #9
On an M14 to release the BHO, yes.
Charging the Garand has already released the op-rod catch.
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- #10
I am not easing the oprod forward. I insert the clip then if it disengages I just smack it. If it does not disengage I pull it all the way to the rear and let it fly. Either way I end up hitting it hard 3-4 times.
I have not tried any ammunition other than S&B.
I did perform the tilt test before I bought the rifle. It easily passed.
I do make sure the first round is on the right side but I have read that does not matter.
Right side first matters if the 7th round modification has not been made to certain receivers. That is rare, and would only be an issue on some of the first ~40,000 rifles produced at Springfield.
The clips that came with Greek ammo are substandard in dimension and temper.
This will allow rounds to " bunch " in the clip and cause bolt-over-base malfunctions as well as difficult first round loading.
Locate some GI clips produced in North America- Springfield (SA), Borg Warner (BR-W), Dominion Arsenal Quebec (DAQ), et cetera.
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- #11
Bullcrap, 'Nog.
Two items cannot occupy the same space at the same time.
People get a dinged digit attempting to close the bolt on an empty mag well, or less than full clip.
https://youtu.be/Jext1mIiiUk?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp
https://youtu.be/3QNphZxtewI?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3QNphZxtewI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Jext1mIiiUk?list=PLGIR3HizKsBX5l_gJCn1yC03R7to3IaDp" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Tell my thumb!
When the clip is pushed down to disengage the BHO, the thumb is above the clip, in line with the now-moving bolt.
Am I missing some element of this discussion? Insert clip, depress for disengagement, bolt comes forward on its own.
- #12
Tell my thumb!
When the clip is pushed down to disengage the <strike>BHO</strike> op-rod catch, the thumb is above the clip , in line with the now-moving bolt.
Am I missing some element of this discussion? Insert clip, depress for disengagement, bolt comes forward on its own.
The bolt is against the base of the top cartridge in a full clip.
As the cartridge rides forward, the thumb would be forced out of the space now occupied.
On some rifles with very worn components, the bolt may strip the first round without assistance, but the digit is still displaced.
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ETA: Using the right hand against the hook of the op- rod allows one to lift the thumb prior to the bolt going home.
Stabbing the clip in, as if expecting to get bit exacerbates the operation.
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In the above videos, I loaded one full clip by thumb, and one by fingertips while keeping the rifle shouldered.
The rifle is a 1945 rebuild, and I was using DEN 43 ammo in SA or BR-W clips.
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- #13
Tell my thumb!
When the clip is pushed down to disengage the BHO, the thumb is above the clip, in line with the now-moving bolt.
Am I missing some element of this discussion? Insert clip, depress for disengagement, bolt comes forward on its own.
Yes I think you are. Your thumb and the first round of 30-06 cannot occupy the same space at the same time. The bolt face cannot push the first round into the chamber while at the same time smashing your thumb. That is just simply physics but another part to this is as you press the fully loaded clip into the magazine once the clip catches, you are still putting a lot of force on top of it; you had to do that to push it down and engage. Now if someone were to very slowly release the pressure, it might be possible that the bolt would slice past the thumb and brushh against it or nick it you would not experience "Garnd Thumb" unless you were deliberately trying to shove your thumb into the chamber as the bolt was closing. Even then I don't see how; it would be a race between your thumb and the 30-06 round and I don't see how you could accomplish this. Additionally the Garand bolt should still require a slap forward to get it to close.
Now, "Garand Thumb" does exist. It is when you close the bolt on an empty magazine. You have to press the follower down with your thumb and without any rounds in the magazine there is nothing to take up the space between the chamber and the bolt except your thumb. So you either move your thumb out of the way, hold the charging handle with your hand, or smash your thumb.
Abominog's thumb: You were smashed on an empty magazine; not a fully loaded one.
Now all of that has nothing to do with my original question.
- #15
I had difficult 1st round when switching to an aftermarket stock. Teh follower arm was digging into the stock when the clip was full. Relieved the stock at that point a little bit and it was good after that.
- #16
Solved
It appears to have been the clips. I polished up the inside of them with some fine steel wool and now it functions as it is supposed to. I can insert the loaded clip into the magazine; the bolt releases and then I give it one slap and it easily goes into battery. It is hard to believe that something this small and simple made such a huge difference.
- #17
Seem to recollect reading of WWII soldiers doing something similar in the anxious hours of waiting. It ranked up there with taking the shine off your accoutrements and sharpening the Bayonet, again.
I've not had the problem, but come to think on it, can't say any of my Clips are new.
- #18
Glad you are back on track!
I have been shooting an *as new* H&R since last year.
First range trips, it was necessary to whack the oprod/bolt forward into battery on the first round.
I attributed this factor to tight tolerances and a rifle that was not broken in.
This year the oprod/bolt is going into battery on its own probably 4 of 5 loadings.
I think it is becoming broken in and I'm sure it also helps to keep up with grease and lube.
- #19
The op rods forward motion is controlled by the op rod hooks and corresponding op rod catch hooks. Timing varies on the guns.
Just pull the op rod back and let her fly forward, that should release the hooks.
Changes were made to the accellerator, hump and non hump over the years and also to the catch, all to change the characteristics.
Some guns are finicky and substituting another op road catch may solve the problem.
Incorrect assembly may be indicated as the gun is hard to load.
Check the clip release, to make sure that the hook is UNDER, the corresponding hook from the op rod catch.
- #20
My first garand I got from cmp was a nice post war gun in a newish but dinged up but solid GI birch stock.
I steamed the dents out, put a new rubbed in finish that really showed some lightning streaks. Finally my ammo arrived and I had the same issue, it was near impossible to even get a loaded enbloc to latch. Releasing the top cartridge was nigh impossible.
Like a dummy I sent it back to have them look at it. They sent a replacement rifle, a rebuilt WW2 gun. While that is what I was hoping for when I ordrerd that first garand I really missed my postwar with that beautiful stock. I am sure now that I am more educated that some small parts swapping would have got that gun right. A more worn accelerator or follower rod, something in that chain.
- #21
Source: https://falfiles.com/threads/m1-garand-extremely-difficult-to-feed-first-round.443502/
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